現(xiàn)代京族的真面目

難得啊, 難得啊, 這次我們 和 weibo 上被罵翻天的 @越南服裝 即Kiet T Tran 達(dá)成一致的意見, 說明這是一個公認(rèn)的觀點.

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介紹 :

這是一個鳩占鵲巢的故事, 越南的歷史敘事是安南人反抗中原的歷史, 但是這里給出了另一種歷史敘事, 我希望大家冷靜點, 反省下現(xiàn)在越南文化的核心是 Muong文化還是中原文化.

沒有比越南人更了解越南人, 我看了越南和歐美學(xué)者的文章后, 細(xì)思極恐, 而且最可怕的是很多越南人明明知道不說出來, 故意占東亞人便宜.

我們來看看越南的教科書 The Truy?n Th?ch Sanh 石生新傳 , 這畫風(fēng)不對啊

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?我們我看看越南的老照片, 怎么平民穿成這樣, 越南東京人怎么穿成這樣

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zhihu.com/question/49498664/answer/1479991917

問題描述

越南民族本來是多來源的。很多越南早期統(tǒng)治者、移民，來自中原或漢語漢族地區(qū)。 但是越南早期文化漢化的各地本土定居多數(shù)人口，很多史書提出應(yīng)該是侗臺語系的語言。

但是，為什么越南語現(xiàn)在是一個南亞語系（類似高棉、芒）的語言？ 早期各地多元的漢、侗臺各族是在哪一年同化為一個說南亞語系語言的“越南”民族的？ 什么歷史實踐導(dǎo)致了這個民族同化過程？

答案大意

京族基本上接受了北方的統(tǒng)治，紅河三角洲，甚至南方的清化、乂安都已經(jīng)趨于平靜，但是Trai族卻不接受，Trai族，在后來被稱作芒族，而黎利和他的支持者，大多都是芒族。事實上，在古交州，交趾地區(qū)是比較擁護(hù)明朝的，不穩(wěn)定的更多在九真，只能說可惜了好圣孫。?

明入越的失敗，在地理上肇始于藍(lán)山起義，藍(lán)山起義迅速席卷了Ca River，即藍(lán)江，藍(lán)江在清化以南，主要流經(jīng)乂安。在當(dāng)時，藍(lán)江流域的主要居民還是芒族（后來下游的芒族逐漸京化），黎利正是以芒族大本營作為基地，最終實現(xiàn)了翻盤。藍(lán)山起義圖和越南的民族分布圖，標(biāo)紅的是藍(lán)山起義最初席卷之地，藍(lán)色為藍(lán)江?？梢娝{(lán)山起義之地與芒族分布高度重合。

本文也參照了一些Quora上越南人的回答，包括而不限于以下鏈接，其中，最有價值的，便是給中文網(wǎng)絡(luò)補(bǔ)充了此前基本沒有的黎利是芒族這個信息吧，但越南人，甚至歐美的越南史研究者，都是知道這點的。

越南紅河流域的居民 換了 一次血了, 現(xiàn)在是 Muong 族的天下

原帖請看知乎上的這個答案, 但是有些細(xì)節(jié)寫的不清楚

文章翻譯的大意

明入越得到低地的紅河流域的京族(1.0版本)廣泛支持, 但是高地區(qū)域藍(lán)山附近的京族, Thai 族被Muong 族同化了, 具有 Muong 特征的藍(lán)山居民是反明的主力.?

明朝對自愿留守越南的明軍的沒有提供強(qiáng)制性的補(bǔ)償, 明軍大體上沒有留守越南的意愿.

趁著明朝撤軍期間, 野性十足的 Muong 族領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人黎利從乂安和清化攻打低地受中國文化影響強(qiáng)烈的低地京族京族(1.0版本), 然后占領(lǐng)了越南全境.

黎利寬宏大量的把被俘的明朝將士用船和補(bǔ)給送回中國, 但是京族女人和中國男人落在越南混血兒, 還有占人, C?u Hi?m, 老撾人, 還有和明軍合作越南本地人被黎利政府貶為奴隸.

種族清洗后是大規(guī)模的文化上的 Muong 化和 去漢化, 高地的 Muong 涌入紅河流域, 越南的居民開始說一種 Muong 相關(guān)的語言, 繼承 Muong 核心文化, 占據(jù)紅河流域后, 現(xiàn)代京族(2.0版本)誕生了.

我希望大家有空收集下下 Muong 族和還有高地民族的資料, 這才是越南研究的重點, 這是一個highland 國家.

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翻譯

鄙人自知才識淺薄, 如果語義語境錯誤, 煩請指正, 括號部分是鄙人的附加說明

轉(zhuǎn)載請附上如下原文鏈接

alchetron.com/Lam-S%C6%A1n-uprising

Lam S?n rebel victory, Independence of ??i Vi?t under the Later Lê Dynasty

藍(lán)山起義的勝利, 后黎朝時代 大越的獨立

The Lam S?n uprising (Kh?i ngh?a Lam S?n) was the uprising led by Lê L?i in Vietnam of 1418-1427 against Ming rule.

藍(lán)山起義是 黎利(Lê L?i)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)的越南反明起義(1418-1427)

The Ming were backed by a lot of Red River plain dwelling ethnic Kinh Vietnamese while it was the frontier dwelling ethnic minority Trai people who were the origin of the anti-Ming rebels and Le Loi himself.?

明朝獲得大量的紅河流域京族居民支持, 然而前線地帶的少數(shù)民族居民Trai族是反明叛亂的來源, 包括黎利 他自己.

There was no mandatory required reparation of the voluntarily remaining Ming Chinese in Vietnam.?

那時候, 沒有強(qiáng)制要求給自愿留守越南明人的提供補(bǔ)償. (言外之意, 留守越南的明軍撈不到額外的好處, 還不如回國)

The return of the Ming Chinese to China was commanded by the Ming and not Le Loi. The Trai made up the supporters of Le Loi in his campaign.?

明人撤回中國是明朝而不是黎利下令的, Trai 族 組成了黎利陣營的主要支持者.

He lived among the Trai at the border regions as their leader and seized the Ming ruled lowland Kinh areas after originally forming his base in the southern highland regions. The southern dwelling Trai and Red River dwelling Vietnamese were in effect locked in a "civil war" during the anti Ming rebellion by Le Loi.

他和 Trai族 一起在邊境區(qū)域生活, 作為 Trai族的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人, 起初, 在南方的高地區(qū)域建立了根據(jù)地之后, 他奪取了 明朝治下的低地京族區(qū)域. 在黎利領(lǐng)導(dǎo)的反明叛亂期間, 實際上, 南方高地的居民和紅河流域的京人陷入內(nèi)戰(zhàn)之中.

?The Trai are also known as the Muong who are highlanders.

Trai族作為高地居民, 也被稱為 Muong族,?

A Muong origin has been ascribed by historians to Le Loi. Clumsy Han Nom transcriptions of names like "Shoes", "Liar", "Tongue", "animal", "shabby", "Skin" and Dog" among Le Loi's supporters indicate a non Vietnamese background.?

歷史學(xué)家認(rèn)為黎利具有 Muong 族的出身, 在黎利的支持者中, 用不得體的漢喃翻譯他的名字, 比如 "鞋子", "騙子", "舌頭", "動物", "下流的", "皮膚"(skin 作為動詞也有欺騙的意思) 和 "狗" 揭示了他的 非京人的背景 (黎利的支持者可能喜歡這么野性十足的名字)

They invaded the Red River area from their original home base of Nghe An and Thanh Hoa. It was said that Le Loi was a barbarian amongst barbarians in texts from China in the 1500s.

?他們從乂安省(Nghe An)和清化(Thanh Hoa) 的家鄉(xiāng)初始根據(jù)地? 入侵了紅河流域, 15世紀(jì)的時候, 據(jù)說根據(jù)中國的文獻(xiàn), 黎利 是 野蠻人里面的野蠻人.

A Muong character dominated over the Vietnamese in Lam son around the river Chu and Tai, Muong, and Vietnamese according to Emile Gaspardone all lived in Tay-kinh in Lam son which was the origin of the Le rebels. Both Trai and Kinh resided near Tay Do in Mount Lam which was the origin of Le Loi. Muont Lam was the origin of the uprising.

Chu河附近的藍(lán)山 京族居民, 連同 Tai族, Muong族, Muong族 特征主導(dǎo)了他們, 還有根據(jù)Emile Gaspardone 的說法,? 所有住在藍(lán)山 Tay-kinh的 京族都是黎利叛亂的根源

住在藍(lán)山Tay Do附近的 Trai族和京族? 是 黎利的出身, 藍(lán)山是起義的根源.

(這里的語法有點亂, 我不知道 有沒有說錯, 藍(lán)山附近的各民族包括京族都有Muong族的特征, 大意是京族 和 Tai 族 都被 Muong 化了, Muong 化的整個藍(lán)山是起義的根源)

Anti Ming sentiment came from the southern highland areas of Nghe An and Thanh Hoa while the same province's lowland areas were pro-Ming as were the Red River inhabitants. Anti Ming rebellion happened among the southern Trai people. The Muong were called Trai while the ethnic Vietnamese were called Kinh during the Tran dynasty.

反明情緒來自乂安省(Nghe An)和清化(Thanh Hoa)的南方高地區(qū)域 ,然而作為同省的 低地區(qū)域的 紅河流域的居民卻是非常親明的, 反明叛亂出現(xiàn)在南方的Trai族中, 在陳朝(1225~1400)的時候, Muong 族被稱為Trai 然而越南人(這里指的是低地區(qū)域的居民)被稱為京族

There was a mix of Trai and Kinh in the area of Mount Lam where Le Loi originated.?

黎利出生在藍(lán)山 京族和 Trai 族混血的地方

Tr?n Quy Khoáng counted Le Loi among one of his partisans. The Ming received an oath of loyalty from Le Loi in 1413. The Ming launched an assault against Le Loi after the Ming were told he was an insurrectionary by one of his rivals.

重光帝 (Trùng Quang ??)把黎利當(dāng)成他的黨羽中的一員, 1413年 明朝從黎利 收到一份效忠的誓約, 在明朝被他的一個對手告訴他是起義者之后, 明朝發(fā)動了針對黎利的攻擊

The Muong people were given the name of outpost (Trai) while the ethnic Kinh Vietnamese living in the lowlands in the Ca and Ma region who were named afer the Hanoi capital area were influenced significantly by Chinese language when the Red River areas was heavily inhabited by Sinophones during the original period of Chinese rule.

Muong 族被命名為Trai(邊區(qū)), 然而居住在Ca 和 Ma 區(qū)域低地的京族越南人以河內(nèi)首都命名, 在起初中國統(tǒng)治期間, 大量的說漢語的人口住在紅河流域, 河內(nèi)首都也受到漢語的巨大影響

(outpost: a remote part of a country or empire. 一個帝國和國家遙遠(yuǎn)的地方; 京就是首都的意思)

?The Tran dynasty had used the label of Trai for the inhabitants of Ha Tinh, Nghe An, and Thanh Hoa n the south while they gave the label of Kinh to the inhabitants of the red River area in 1256.

1256年, 陳朝使用Trai 作為南方的Ha Tinh, Nghe An, and Thanh Hoa 居民的稱謂, 然而他們給紅河流域的居民 京族稱謂.

The decisive battle was the Battle of T?t ??ng – Chúc ??ng in 1426, after which the Ming Dynasty eventually had to concede defeat by 1428.?

決定性的戰(zhàn)爭是1426年的崒洞祝洞之戰(zhàn), 之后明朝終于不得不在1428年之前 承認(rèn)戰(zhàn)敗?

Rather than putting to death the captured Ming soldiers and administrators, he magnanimously provided ships and supplies to send them back to China. Le Loi then ascended the Vietnamese throne, taking the reign name Le Thai To and establishing the Le dynasty (1428-1788).

他寬宏大量的把被俘的明朝將士用船和補(bǔ)給送回中國, 而不是處死他們, 然后黎利即位了, 使用 黎太祖作為統(tǒng)治名字, 然后建立了 黎朝(1428-1788)

(這里有個問題,應(yīng)該是后人稱黎利為黎太祖 ,而不是黎利取這個名字即位, 我不懂越南歷史, 有朋友知道的可以指正下)

The Muong were the majority of the rebels against the Ming who served Le Loi. Muong was the ethnicity of Le Loi.?

Muong 族是為黎利效力的的反明叛軍主體, Muong 族是黎利的族裔

Up to 1427 the Ming were served by loyalist Vietnamese collaborators who could read Chinese and who were subjected to propaganda from Nguyen Trai who worked with Le Loi.

直到1427年, 明朝被忠誠的京族合作者效力, 他們能閱讀漢語, 反對來自 和黎利協(xié)作的 阮廌的政治宣傳

It was recorded that the union of Vietnamese women and Chinese (Ng?) men produced offspring which were left behind in Vietnam, and the Chams, C?u Hi?m, Laotians, these people, and Vietnamese natives who collaborated with the Ming were made into slaves of the Le government in the Complete Annals of ??i Vi?t.

根據(jù)大越史記全書(the Complete Annals of ??i Vi?t)記載, 京族女人和中國男人聯(lián)合(通婚)生下的被留在越南的后代, 還有占人, C?u Hi?m, 老撾人, 還有和明軍合作越南本地人被黎利政府貶為奴隸

The leader L?u Bác C?ng (Liu Bogong) in 1437 commanded a Dai Viet military squad made out of ethnic Chinese since even after the independnece of Dai Viet, Chinese remained behind.

1437年, 因為即便在大越獨立后, 中國人仍然被落在越南, 一個領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人Liu Bogong 命令一個大越軍隊把華裔救出來.

高地民族風(fēng)俗賞析

欲了解京族(2.0版本)文化, 先了解 Muong 高地文化?

prints-online.com/vietnam-muong-people-7157799.html

Muong 族肖像

Vietnam - Warriors of the Muong People from the Hoa Binh Province and the mountainous districts of Thanh Hoa Province in the north of the country. Date: circa 1910s

越南 北方, 來自Hoa Binh省和Thanh Hoa省山區(qū)的 Muong 戰(zhàn)士.

為什么越南要強(qiáng)調(diào)東山銅鼓, 看看 Muong 族的手鼓?

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我們繼續(xù)搜索下 highland people

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我們不得不正視這個事實, 1428年是個分界線, 在這之前, 越南屬于漢化的低地居民, 此后, 經(jīng)歷種族屠殺后, 越南屬于高地居民

知乎上越南人真面目的文章。

www.zhihu.com/question/49498664/answer/1479991917